Roy
Identifies as two-spirited
Roy: This doctor told me that Native American culture there were men that did not go out on the hunt, they would stay in the village and participate in hunting or war parties. And there was a special name given to those people, but it was not a denouncement or anything. They were actually quite revered.
Ma' am Versus Man
Roy: It’s tough being either one, but practicing being a girl? I find out that being a girl, there are a whole lot of things that are hard to do. I would be the tomboy for sure. Like I said last night, to wear eye makeup, you have to stop touching your face. And what's more, I think, in this society as being pretty is more feminine trait than it is a masculine trait. If a man tries to be pretty, um, get back to like the 1950s attitude, he's in for a lot of derisive comments. People get hurt over this. Billy Bob don't really like to see you doing that.
Transitioning in Smaller Cities
Roy: I do know that in smaller cities, I wouldn't want to be a transgender person, I would try my best to move to a place where people could at least appreciate the person inside and not the person outside.
Lynne: Did your parents want a boy or girl?
Roy: I really don't know, Lynne. I suspect they just wanted a live child. It's crazy situation. Number One: My dad was ashamed that he got my mom pregnant. He wouldn't walk on the same side of the street as her once she began showing because he was afraid people wouldn't know what he had done. I think if I had been female, I’d have been the last one mom had.
Did You Grow Up Identifying as the Gender You Were Assigned?
Roy: I'd have to answer that for the most part, yes. For the most part, when we were playing, I would rather have the male role, but at the same time I was shamed into wanting to be that if I did anything. For instance, I still to this day adore the smell of Baby Johnson... “Give you ovarian cancer, but you smell good dying!” If I were to ask to be powdered, to sprinkle powder on me once I was out of diapers, it was, "Only girls where that. Boys don't smell like that.” Then there were times that I did question it. There were times that I wasn't sure I wanted to be what I was. There were times that I thought I was really feminine looking enough that I would be concerned that other people might perceive I'm a girl if I put that dress or that shirt or that pair of pants on, or if I wore that color.
Duality
Roy: The first time I was aware that there might be duality in me and that I might actually possess a feminine side was probably in my early teens. I found it as a source of embarrassment, actually, that I would be recognized as a girl, especially from behind. I had long hair. You couldn't really tell I was a guy. So, it would embarrass me, I guess, to be identified as a girl. Probably the first times that I actually wished that I was a girl? Goes back to when I was three or four years old. I wanted to do the things my sister and cousin was doing, because there were girls. To perfume or powder, to smell good at an early age.
When Did it Start?
Roy: The first time I guess, the one that hit me the hardest, the time I said, "Wow. Where is that coming from?” That's probably nine - ten years ago, working right along the Beltline. And I had this incredible need, this urge that I couldn't wait to get home and jump my husband's bones. I don't have a husband. Don't really like men. One of the questions I had to ask the doctor about, “Where could I get the feeling, the urge to have something that is a physical impossibility?” I could never have another part, you know, a man's penis put in where I have testicles and stuff. There's nothing there. But yet I have this inside of me. I need to have this satisfied.
Spousal Reaction
Roy: That is not something you can’t talk about to anybody, not even your wife. Becky has gotten better about it now. I can talk to her about it some now. But for the longest time she didn't understand it. And I've tried to wear shoes about that. I don't know how I'd feel if she came in and said, "Yeahhhhh, I want to be a guy. I want to talk rough. I want to have hair all over my body. I want to have a dick and balls.” “Baby, we need to sit down and talk a little bit. I'm not sure I want to go down that road with you. I love you. Part of the reason I do is to package your hand and there might be an issue." I have since looked really hard at it. The appropriate answer would be, "If you're going to be a guy, I'm going to be a girl and then will be happy." That's not going to happen. She loves being a woman too much, and for all the right reasons.
Lynne: When was the first time you actually had a conversation with Becky about this?
Roy: About nine years or so ago, before I saw the shrink, that's when I first started having these feelings and I would say, “I want to wear this or I want to buy that.” She could tell you better than I can. Probably 2006 somewhere along there. That was before I had cancer.... But Lynne, when I look back, do the armchair quarterback thing... The cancer was in me at that time. That was a very slow growing tumor. It took a long time for it to become uncomfortable. And even then, it took a long time before it became threatening. 2014, October, I went in for a scan, it was diagnosed, sent to another doctor in November 2014. A month later, cancer had increased in 20 percent in size. If it had grown like that first time around. I would have been consumed before it was ever diagnosed, so I do think that was going on. I don't know if that was actually altering my hormones. I guess we just live too hard and too fast to really stop and think about things.
"It's like she was jealous of the female me."
Back to my relationship, it was like she was fighting me for me. Do you understand? She perceived me so much a woman that she thought that woman was going to take her man away. And if I can get in touch with that now, I understand that. It's like she was jealous of the female me. We were together and I felt girly and she was full of animosity. And I had a hard time understanding that because, you know, inside is still me. I ain't done anything different. I'm just, kind of exploring a new facet of me. It's a part of me I never really gave a chance to look at. Eventually, we got around where we could talk about it without her feeling angry. I'm not real sure, I don't know that the emotion was anger. We've actually talked about that some since then. And she's let me know that she was threatened by the female personality.
First Time You Felt a Change in Gender
Roy: I expected to get me a tiger outfit, you know, so I could wear it and be a tiger. The only thing they had available was a woman's outfit. I didn't know it was a woman's garment when I put it on, but I couldn't go to take it off. I've never felt so utterly feminine. I had to enter the garment through the neckline. Right. You’re a girl, you know, those kind of things as to the way you put them on. So that was different right then. And then I'm like, "Oh my God, I have to strip to pee." So do girls. But it wasn’t the flash of insight. "Oh, well, girls do this all the time. " It's like, "Oh my God, for a man that's terrible. I got to pull my top down and stand. I'll be pissed all over it. All those things flashed through your mind and... Today I would wear it. I would wear it and be proud of it. But at that time, in that day and age... I was totally embarrassed. And maybe when you stop and think about it, maybe that was the beginning of it.
"For my time of birth, Pisces. The two fish struggling against each other."
You know, the most time you're most fearful of those truthful things that you don't want to see, you know. I guess from this time, "You really are more girly looking than you want to say, you know." It can strike at your masculinity. At one time that would have bothered me. Now, I feel like I kind of ride the fence. I can be either or, and that's awfully ugly to the men and women that are glad and proud to be what they are all the time. I do believe in this duality of the icon. For my time of birth, Pisces. The two fish struggling against each other. Male against female. At one time that was maybe good against evil. But now I'm beginning to see maybe it's a male-female struggle. It's not good and evil. It balances, you know, because the guy says, "Oh, wait a minute, you can't do that." And the girl says, “Why can't I?" And likewise, the girl says, "You can't do that." and the guy says, "Why Can't I?" The person gains insight to both sides of the argument.
Crossdresser
Roy: Becky brought me to that realization one day. I can't remember now how it came about. She looked at me and said, “You are a cross dresser.” And in my mind, a cross dresser is someone that seeks out to wear other genders clothing right solely for some weird purpose. I don’t know what it is. I stopped and looked at her and I said, "You're right, I prefer to wear women's clothing." So that, by definition makes me a crossdresser.” ...Several of those things you read off don't particularly like the sound of it because it creates the feeling that you're outside of the normal bubble. But wait a minute, I excel in being proud of being outside of the normal bubble. So, I shouldn't find offensive at that. I shouldn't find that I feel put down by associating myself with those words. And when you stop and face it head-on like that, you have to hit the part that says, "That is me. By golly damned, part of that is me." Your red toenail polish, I love it. I'd like to be able to do it. But when I do it to me, it doesn't look right.
Lynne: My recollection of everything that happened started that Christmas of 2006.
Roy: I have to say that's when it really came to a head for everybody stepping up and saying, “You know, this ain't you.” It was hard because it was happening inside my head. I was feeling it and I couldn't get anyone to understand and I couldn't get anyone to talk, to just say, "Okay, let's forget who we are and what our relationship is." This is something that I'm having an issue with. I don't understand where I'm going, and I have yet to talk to someone that could help me understand it. It was after I had the cancer and that PA, the one I was saying had the child out of wedlock intentionally. I admired her for doing that. She was kind of a kindred spirit. She understood. She could tell that I was struggling. I don't know how exactly, but she's the one that suggested this doctor. I think her interpretation of things when I came was that I was having issues dealing with cancer. And as I got to talk, it came out. The final session that I had with her, I asked her. "My biggest concern, do you think I'm crazy, or you know, just what?" And she looked at me and told me that she felt I could function equally well in either world. Masculine or feminine.
"I think it takes both for the whole world to exist."
...There was nothing wrong about having these feelings. Back to the Native Americans. They had told me that they were that way. And they were revered in the village because they helped the village live. It helped me understand some just to know that I wasn't losing reality, that I wasn’t going crazy, that it was something that actually some people did go through. And the funny thing is. I still feel it, but it's not near as strong as it once was. I still get irritated, agitated, angry, upset when I hear people putting women down... and blow that breath in, breathe out the other, you hear somebody bashing men and I get upset about that. It takes both of us male and female, regardless. You know, the genetic part or to sex part, it still is a mental part. I think it takes both for the whole world to exist.
Dual Personality
Roy: I have become comfortable with the idea that I have a dual personality. Not like a full schizo or something where there's a definite split personality in one moment on this way and the next moment that way. I feel like I have insight to women's emotions because I get those emotions sometimes. And it's not something that I would say in this society that's typically a male emotion. It's not. It's what you usually expect to hear from women.
Lynne: Do you feel men are really as emotional as women, but they're not given permission?
Roy: I do believe you've hit on something that I have come to recognize in myself as a large possibility. Men have this ability, if they're willing to stand up and take it. Society places so much value on men being the strong, silent type, to suffer quietly. and we don't want to hear about your gripes. That for the most part they could do it, but they won't.
Hormones
Roy: Indirectly, I spoke about this subject with everybody. Roy and Alison could deal with it. Your grand babies are going to have trouble. I think Chris and Stephanie wouldn't forsake me, but it would change our relationship. It would certainly change my relationship with Becky. She's pretty much said, if that happens, we're done. I don't get excited about women. I don't want to be a lesbian. I'm happy being a girl. I'm happy loving a guy. I am not so happy loving a guy that has become a woman. She just can't even open her mind to it. All right. So, there's all of that. And then the next thing... I want the whole experience. If I can't have the whole, if I can't bring a life into the world and nurture it and give birth to it, feed it... Being the woman... I don't want to play at being a woman. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
"... there's a large part of me that I feel is feminine. A large part of me that still feels masculine."
That's I guess not to even mention the expense. I really thought this out. If someone gave me the money so that I could just go have anything done, there are several things I got to look at. Number one, I've had cancer, so that means my new system is compromised. It definitely cannot recognize a cancer cell as something that it needs to combat. What would happen if I start taking hormones? How much cancer would I turn loose? It's an unknown. There's no way to get a quantitative and qualitative answer to that. The only way to know would be to walk that wall. You know, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that just so that I can feel right. I know up here there's a large part of me that I feel is feminine. A large part of me that still feels masculine.
Masculine Versus Feminine
Roy: Although I do have trouble now understanding what does being masculine mean? Those lines have been blurred by society so much. You know, at one time, it was easy to say, "Well, the guy is the one that goes out and gets all the food and fights all the animals and does all the hard work." Do you ever hang around and do what the women were doing while them guys were out seeking a monster? It is hard work. I don't care if you're washing clothes, chewing hides to make clothes, gathering firewood. Women's work has always been a thankless job. Kind of what you mentioned earlier. If somebody drops a piece of clothing, there's a woman going to come pick it up. Oh, that infuriates me. The girl in me just... I'm ready to go to war about that. And the man in me says, well, it's not always men that are slobs. You know, there are some women that are slobs. My grandmother was. My mother doesn't mean to be, but sometimes it comes out that way. I think just because she gets too tired or too interested in something else to really care about dirty dishes.
"Women's work has always been a thankless job."
I don't think I would ever choose to have that surgery now. The last part of this... I'm kind of vain. I’d make one hell of an ugly woman. You know, it scares me to think about going all the way, but I would love to have a vagina. I don't know why. Is it a male thing? This is something that I can't answer for myself even. You think about that part of the female's anatomy, I just totally love it. The fact that the crack runs all the way from one side to the other. I don't know why. I just, ugh, balls get in the way. I sit on them, I pinch them. My dogs’ step on them. I'd be happy to not have them. But right now, that's my only source of testosterone. So, I guess I might keep them if I’m going to stay a guy.
Lynne: I'm going to ask you a series of questions that don't necessarily relate to the gender issue, but I want you to approach them from the point of view of the gender issue.
Roy: I'm going to be honest with you. I have trouble not doing any more.
Lynne: Good. What's your favorite word?
Roy: I don't know if it would be a favorite word per-se. But an emotion that's associated with the word, whatever the word is, that lets you know right now you're comfortable, you're okay in your surroundings. The people that you're in contact with accept you for being a real person.
Lynne: What is your least favorite word?
Roy: Hate. It's just a really strong word, and no one should have to experience it.
Lynne: When you hit the Pearly Gates, what do you want God to say to you?
Roy: Your name is in this book of life. But today, Roy, we're going to give you an option. You can go back and live another life. No guarantees. No guarantees that you'll be male or female, human or what. But you get to go back to Earth and live another life. That's not going to change what's already happened. If you're here, you're here. If you're not, you're not. But you can go back and live another life. That's what I'd like to hear. You know why? Do you ride amusement rides, big slides, roller coasters? Think about the one that you had the most fun on. What did you want to do when you got off? Most people would like to go again unless they got scared, if they really enjoyed it. They want to get on it and ride it again. That's the way I feel about my life. There's been hard times, but mostly I remember the good times and it's all been good enough that I'd be willing to take a chance to have another go at it just because it's been so much fun.
Ma' am Versus Man
Roy: It’s tough being either one, but practicing being a girl? I find out that being a girl, there are a whole lot of things that are hard to do. I would be the tomboy for sure. Like I said last night, to wear eye makeup, you have to stop touching your face. And what's more, I think, in this society as being pretty is more feminine trait than it is a masculine trait. If a man tries to be pretty, um, get back to like the 1950s attitude, he's in for a lot of derisive comments. People get hurt over this. Billy Bob don't really like to see you doing that.
Transitioning in Smaller Cities
Roy: I do know that in smaller cities, I wouldn't want to be a transgender person, I would try my best to move to a place where people could at least appreciate the person inside and not the person outside.
Lynne: Did your parents want a boy or girl?
Roy: I really don't know, Lynne. I suspect they just wanted a live child. It's crazy situation. Number One: My dad was ashamed that he got my mom pregnant. He wouldn't walk on the same side of the street as her once she began showing because he was afraid people wouldn't know what he had done. I think if I had been female, I’d have been the last one mom had.
Did You Grow Up Identifying as the Gender You Were Assigned?
Roy: I'd have to answer that for the most part, yes. For the most part, when we were playing, I would rather have the male role, but at the same time I was shamed into wanting to be that if I did anything. For instance, I still to this day adore the smell of Baby Johnson... “Give you ovarian cancer, but you smell good dying!” If I were to ask to be powdered, to sprinkle powder on me once I was out of diapers, it was, "Only girls where that. Boys don't smell like that.” Then there were times that I did question it. There were times that I wasn't sure I wanted to be what I was. There were times that I thought I was really feminine looking enough that I would be concerned that other people might perceive I'm a girl if I put that dress or that shirt or that pair of pants on, or if I wore that color.
Duality
Roy: The first time I was aware that there might be duality in me and that I might actually possess a feminine side was probably in my early teens. I found it as a source of embarrassment, actually, that I would be recognized as a girl, especially from behind. I had long hair. You couldn't really tell I was a guy. So, it would embarrass me, I guess, to be identified as a girl. Probably the first times that I actually wished that I was a girl? Goes back to when I was three or four years old. I wanted to do the things my sister and cousin was doing, because there were girls. To perfume or powder, to smell good at an early age.
When Did it Start?
Roy: The first time I guess, the one that hit me the hardest, the time I said, "Wow. Where is that coming from?” That's probably nine - ten years ago, working right along the Beltline. And I had this incredible need, this urge that I couldn't wait to get home and jump my husband's bones. I don't have a husband. Don't really like men. One of the questions I had to ask the doctor about, “Where could I get the feeling, the urge to have something that is a physical impossibility?” I could never have another part, you know, a man's penis put in where I have testicles and stuff. There's nothing there. But yet I have this inside of me. I need to have this satisfied.
Spousal Reaction
Roy: That is not something you can’t talk about to anybody, not even your wife. Becky has gotten better about it now. I can talk to her about it some now. But for the longest time she didn't understand it. And I've tried to wear shoes about that. I don't know how I'd feel if she came in and said, "Yeahhhhh, I want to be a guy. I want to talk rough. I want to have hair all over my body. I want to have a dick and balls.” “Baby, we need to sit down and talk a little bit. I'm not sure I want to go down that road with you. I love you. Part of the reason I do is to package your hand and there might be an issue." I have since looked really hard at it. The appropriate answer would be, "If you're going to be a guy, I'm going to be a girl and then will be happy." That's not going to happen. She loves being a woman too much, and for all the right reasons.
Lynne: When was the first time you actually had a conversation with Becky about this?
Roy: About nine years or so ago, before I saw the shrink, that's when I first started having these feelings and I would say, “I want to wear this or I want to buy that.” She could tell you better than I can. Probably 2006 somewhere along there. That was before I had cancer.... But Lynne, when I look back, do the armchair quarterback thing... The cancer was in me at that time. That was a very slow growing tumor. It took a long time for it to become uncomfortable. And even then, it took a long time before it became threatening. 2014, October, I went in for a scan, it was diagnosed, sent to another doctor in November 2014. A month later, cancer had increased in 20 percent in size. If it had grown like that first time around. I would have been consumed before it was ever diagnosed, so I do think that was going on. I don't know if that was actually altering my hormones. I guess we just live too hard and too fast to really stop and think about things.
"It's like she was jealous of the female me."
Back to my relationship, it was like she was fighting me for me. Do you understand? She perceived me so much a woman that she thought that woman was going to take her man away. And if I can get in touch with that now, I understand that. It's like she was jealous of the female me. We were together and I felt girly and she was full of animosity. And I had a hard time understanding that because, you know, inside is still me. I ain't done anything different. I'm just, kind of exploring a new facet of me. It's a part of me I never really gave a chance to look at. Eventually, we got around where we could talk about it without her feeling angry. I'm not real sure, I don't know that the emotion was anger. We've actually talked about that some since then. And she's let me know that she was threatened by the female personality.
First Time You Felt a Change in Gender
Roy: I expected to get me a tiger outfit, you know, so I could wear it and be a tiger. The only thing they had available was a woman's outfit. I didn't know it was a woman's garment when I put it on, but I couldn't go to take it off. I've never felt so utterly feminine. I had to enter the garment through the neckline. Right. You’re a girl, you know, those kind of things as to the way you put them on. So that was different right then. And then I'm like, "Oh my God, I have to strip to pee." So do girls. But it wasn’t the flash of insight. "Oh, well, girls do this all the time. " It's like, "Oh my God, for a man that's terrible. I got to pull my top down and stand. I'll be pissed all over it. All those things flashed through your mind and... Today I would wear it. I would wear it and be proud of it. But at that time, in that day and age... I was totally embarrassed. And maybe when you stop and think about it, maybe that was the beginning of it.
"For my time of birth, Pisces. The two fish struggling against each other."
You know, the most time you're most fearful of those truthful things that you don't want to see, you know. I guess from this time, "You really are more girly looking than you want to say, you know." It can strike at your masculinity. At one time that would have bothered me. Now, I feel like I kind of ride the fence. I can be either or, and that's awfully ugly to the men and women that are glad and proud to be what they are all the time. I do believe in this duality of the icon. For my time of birth, Pisces. The two fish struggling against each other. Male against female. At one time that was maybe good against evil. But now I'm beginning to see maybe it's a male-female struggle. It's not good and evil. It balances, you know, because the guy says, "Oh, wait a minute, you can't do that." And the girl says, “Why can't I?" And likewise, the girl says, "You can't do that." and the guy says, "Why Can't I?" The person gains insight to both sides of the argument.
Crossdresser
Roy: Becky brought me to that realization one day. I can't remember now how it came about. She looked at me and said, “You are a cross dresser.” And in my mind, a cross dresser is someone that seeks out to wear other genders clothing right solely for some weird purpose. I don’t know what it is. I stopped and looked at her and I said, "You're right, I prefer to wear women's clothing." So that, by definition makes me a crossdresser.” ...Several of those things you read off don't particularly like the sound of it because it creates the feeling that you're outside of the normal bubble. But wait a minute, I excel in being proud of being outside of the normal bubble. So, I shouldn't find offensive at that. I shouldn't find that I feel put down by associating myself with those words. And when you stop and face it head-on like that, you have to hit the part that says, "That is me. By golly damned, part of that is me." Your red toenail polish, I love it. I'd like to be able to do it. But when I do it to me, it doesn't look right.
Lynne: My recollection of everything that happened started that Christmas of 2006.
Roy: I have to say that's when it really came to a head for everybody stepping up and saying, “You know, this ain't you.” It was hard because it was happening inside my head. I was feeling it and I couldn't get anyone to understand and I couldn't get anyone to talk, to just say, "Okay, let's forget who we are and what our relationship is." This is something that I'm having an issue with. I don't understand where I'm going, and I have yet to talk to someone that could help me understand it. It was after I had the cancer and that PA, the one I was saying had the child out of wedlock intentionally. I admired her for doing that. She was kind of a kindred spirit. She understood. She could tell that I was struggling. I don't know how exactly, but she's the one that suggested this doctor. I think her interpretation of things when I came was that I was having issues dealing with cancer. And as I got to talk, it came out. The final session that I had with her, I asked her. "My biggest concern, do you think I'm crazy, or you know, just what?" And she looked at me and told me that she felt I could function equally well in either world. Masculine or feminine.
"I think it takes both for the whole world to exist."
...There was nothing wrong about having these feelings. Back to the Native Americans. They had told me that they were that way. And they were revered in the village because they helped the village live. It helped me understand some just to know that I wasn't losing reality, that I wasn’t going crazy, that it was something that actually some people did go through. And the funny thing is. I still feel it, but it's not near as strong as it once was. I still get irritated, agitated, angry, upset when I hear people putting women down... and blow that breath in, breathe out the other, you hear somebody bashing men and I get upset about that. It takes both of us male and female, regardless. You know, the genetic part or to sex part, it still is a mental part. I think it takes both for the whole world to exist.
Dual Personality
Roy: I have become comfortable with the idea that I have a dual personality. Not like a full schizo or something where there's a definite split personality in one moment on this way and the next moment that way. I feel like I have insight to women's emotions because I get those emotions sometimes. And it's not something that I would say in this society that's typically a male emotion. It's not. It's what you usually expect to hear from women.
Lynne: Do you feel men are really as emotional as women, but they're not given permission?
Roy: I do believe you've hit on something that I have come to recognize in myself as a large possibility. Men have this ability, if they're willing to stand up and take it. Society places so much value on men being the strong, silent type, to suffer quietly. and we don't want to hear about your gripes. That for the most part they could do it, but they won't.
Hormones
Roy: Indirectly, I spoke about this subject with everybody. Roy and Alison could deal with it. Your grand babies are going to have trouble. I think Chris and Stephanie wouldn't forsake me, but it would change our relationship. It would certainly change my relationship with Becky. She's pretty much said, if that happens, we're done. I don't get excited about women. I don't want to be a lesbian. I'm happy being a girl. I'm happy loving a guy. I am not so happy loving a guy that has become a woman. She just can't even open her mind to it. All right. So, there's all of that. And then the next thing... I want the whole experience. If I can't have the whole, if I can't bring a life into the world and nurture it and give birth to it, feed it... Being the woman... I don't want to play at being a woman. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
"... there's a large part of me that I feel is feminine. A large part of me that still feels masculine."
That's I guess not to even mention the expense. I really thought this out. If someone gave me the money so that I could just go have anything done, there are several things I got to look at. Number one, I've had cancer, so that means my new system is compromised. It definitely cannot recognize a cancer cell as something that it needs to combat. What would happen if I start taking hormones? How much cancer would I turn loose? It's an unknown. There's no way to get a quantitative and qualitative answer to that. The only way to know would be to walk that wall. You know, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that just so that I can feel right. I know up here there's a large part of me that I feel is feminine. A large part of me that still feels masculine.
Masculine Versus Feminine
Roy: Although I do have trouble now understanding what does being masculine mean? Those lines have been blurred by society so much. You know, at one time, it was easy to say, "Well, the guy is the one that goes out and gets all the food and fights all the animals and does all the hard work." Do you ever hang around and do what the women were doing while them guys were out seeking a monster? It is hard work. I don't care if you're washing clothes, chewing hides to make clothes, gathering firewood. Women's work has always been a thankless job. Kind of what you mentioned earlier. If somebody drops a piece of clothing, there's a woman going to come pick it up. Oh, that infuriates me. The girl in me just... I'm ready to go to war about that. And the man in me says, well, it's not always men that are slobs. You know, there are some women that are slobs. My grandmother was. My mother doesn't mean to be, but sometimes it comes out that way. I think just because she gets too tired or too interested in something else to really care about dirty dishes.
"Women's work has always been a thankless job."
I don't think I would ever choose to have that surgery now. The last part of this... I'm kind of vain. I’d make one hell of an ugly woman. You know, it scares me to think about going all the way, but I would love to have a vagina. I don't know why. Is it a male thing? This is something that I can't answer for myself even. You think about that part of the female's anatomy, I just totally love it. The fact that the crack runs all the way from one side to the other. I don't know why. I just, ugh, balls get in the way. I sit on them, I pinch them. My dogs’ step on them. I'd be happy to not have them. But right now, that's my only source of testosterone. So, I guess I might keep them if I’m going to stay a guy.
Lynne: I'm going to ask you a series of questions that don't necessarily relate to the gender issue, but I want you to approach them from the point of view of the gender issue.
Roy: I'm going to be honest with you. I have trouble not doing any more.
Lynne: Good. What's your favorite word?
Roy: I don't know if it would be a favorite word per-se. But an emotion that's associated with the word, whatever the word is, that lets you know right now you're comfortable, you're okay in your surroundings. The people that you're in contact with accept you for being a real person.
Lynne: What is your least favorite word?
Roy: Hate. It's just a really strong word, and no one should have to experience it.
Lynne: When you hit the Pearly Gates, what do you want God to say to you?
Roy: Your name is in this book of life. But today, Roy, we're going to give you an option. You can go back and live another life. No guarantees. No guarantees that you'll be male or female, human or what. But you get to go back to Earth and live another life. That's not going to change what's already happened. If you're here, you're here. If you're not, you're not. But you can go back and live another life. That's what I'd like to hear. You know why? Do you ride amusement rides, big slides, roller coasters? Think about the one that you had the most fun on. What did you want to do when you got off? Most people would like to go again unless they got scared, if they really enjoyed it. They want to get on it and ride it again. That's the way I feel about my life. There's been hard times, but mostly I remember the good times and it's all been good enough that I'd be willing to take a chance to have another go at it just because it's been so much fun.